How to Let Go of Perfectionism in Business (And Why You Need To!)

In this series, we’re talking about wealth creation. So far in the series, we’ve had some incredible guests talking about all sorts of interesting concepts.

We’ve just had tons and tons of amazing guests on the series so far.

Today I wanted to talk to you about how the perfectionist can stop us from doing things, from taking action, from feeling like we aren’t worthy or good enough. This can be in relation to money or business or lots of other things in life.

I’m going to be talking with Annie Stoker who’s a wonderful, wonderful trainer for the One of Many community. The One of Many community is an organisation who I’ve been deeply embedded in their literally transformational work over the last 18 months. Annie Stoker is one of the trainers for One of Many.

One of the things that Annie specialises in is what we call sub-personalities. One of those sub-personalities is the perfectionist. I’m sure many of you can resonate with when the perfectionist shows up. Today we’re going to be talking about what causes someone to be a perfectionist.

  • How does it show up?
  • How do we accept rather than overcome the perfectionist: how do we actually accept that the perfectionist is either there to protect us, to keep us safe or to stop us from taking action or doing something.

Annie shares some really interesting examples actually of when the perfectionists can really show up. I share in this episode as well about how, even in my own business, the perfectionist shows up again and again. I would say pretty much every day, the perfectionist comes up for me and tells me things like, “that’s not perfect,” or “that needs more editing,” or, “you’ve got a spot on your face you can’t do a Facebook live.” Or maybe “it’s too noisy in this room, you can’t record a podcast.”

Something always comes up around the perfectionist for me. The biggest thing I’ve learned is, it’s not about overcoming the perfectionist. It’s about acknowledging that she is there and saying, thank you for giving me this message today to try and protect me, but actually in this situation, you’re not being particularly helpful.

I hope that it’s helpful for you to think about how the perfectionist may show up in your life, how the perfectionist may show up in your business, in your relationships, in your friendship groups, with yourself and how by acknowledging it, accepting the perfectionist and following Annie’s steps that she’s going to talk through, can really help you to start taking action in areas where perhaps you’re stuck in procrastination or inaction.

One of the money mantras actually I’ve been using over the last few months with myself is “I don’t have to be perfect to be successful”. The more I’ve replayed that the more now I actually really believe it. When we’re looking to create change, we have to change it with how we feel first and how we think. What are we telling ourselves? Then we can start to change our behaviours and how we act.

Annie started her journey in studying the mind 25 years ago when she herself actually suffered some serious illness which forced her to abandon her travels and plumb the depths of her own psyche. As soon as she was well enough again, she got a one way ticket to Australia and continued studying everything from psychotherapy, mindfulness, and all things in between. She spent a decade doing intensive meditation and mindfulness practice with various spiritual teachers. She now uses all of this to distil the best from Western psychology and Eastern spiritual traditions and has developed systems that have since helped thousands of clients.

“I don’t have to be perfect to be successful.

Money Mantra

She has created a six figure income in her first solo year in business. So real entrepreneur here. She’s coached and run trainings for women’s property investing groups. She has a portfolio of 14 properties in the last three years. So I’m sure you would agree, she is a woman who is worthy of listening to. Certainly from personal experience, she’s just an incredible lady. I am absolutely delighted to introduce you to Annie Stoker.

Annie is an author. She’s a trainer. She’s a transpersonal psychotherapist, a mindfulness coach, horse rider, adventurer, and a loving friend. She’s just an all around awesome person. Annie is the Director of the Life Training Institute and also a Collaborator Trainer and Head of Coaching for One of Many.


So welcome to the podcast today, Annie. How are you?

Yeah. Hi Catherine. I’m so excited to be here. It’s one of my favourite topics to talk about, so it’s great. Thank you so much for inviting me.

This is a really interesting subject for me because I am in One of Many’s Lead the Change project, which is a 12 month project. A big part of that has been about digging deep into some of the subconscious beliefs that stop us from taking action, from doing things, from feeling good about ourselves. One of the, what we call sub-personalities, is this perfectionism.

This has definitely played out for me a lot in my past and still occasionally comes up. But thanks to the work of One of Many, I’ve really been able to acknowledge my sub personalities.

So could you just maybe introduce us to the concept of sub-personalities for those people who have never come across that before?

Absolutely. So you know how, when you’re at the office, you kind of go into a particular mode. You come home you’re with the kids, you’re different again. Maybe you’re going out doing some sport, you’re different. We have these different ways of being or modes, zones that we get into that are actually separate parts of us. Our personality is made up of little tiny pieces. These separate pieces we call sub-personalities.

Some examples are the Pusher, which is the part of us that drives, that pushes, that wants us to get successful, to get results, to be busy. It doesn’t like us to stop.

We’ve got the Pleaser, which is that part of us that some people have really strongly, which just wants to please people make sure that we do the right thing. We say the right thing. We look the right way. Everyone’s going to be happy with us, avoid conflict.

We have the Perfectionist that we’re going to be digging into a little bit today, which is that part that just wants you to be perfect. Everything that you do to be perfect, everyone around you to be perfect, your house to be perfect. Everything has to look perfect and you have to do and be so, so busy to get that to happen.

There’s a bunch of them. There’s a Rule Maker. The rules about how we get up in the morning, how we brush our teeth, how we make breakfast, how we drive, how we cook, how we speak, the way we show up are all actually kind of based on these inner rules.

We’ve got one called the Protector, which is this aspect to us that really wants to keep us safe. So many people have a strong Protector and that part of them wouldn’t want them to go on a zoom call like this it’d be live streamed, live to Facebook because it’s like, people are going to judge me. I want to be kept safe. It’s part of us that can really keep us quite small or protected.

One of the favourites that I hear a lot of in the One of Many community the Inner Critic. The Inner Critic’s that voice in your head that tells you off, puts you down, points out all your faults, gives you a really hard time. If you made a mistake yesterday, a week ago or a year, even a year ago, it’s just hammering you like crazy. So all of these parts are actually different voices.

If you’re aware of different voices that talk to you in your head, don’t worry. You’re not nuts! It’s completely normal, but they are actually different parts of us called sub-personalities.

I’m sure many readers are nodding, like yep. That comes up. That comes up. That comes up. I got one of them. So I guess the first question is how do we know when these sub-personalities even exist for us?

The first sign that we’re really caught up in one of those things, it’s that a behaviour or a way of being feels like it’s compulsive.

Let’s say you work nine-to-five and at five o’clock, your boss turns up and says, “I’d like you to stay behind and do this work. It’s going to take two hours, go do it now.” And your default response is, “yeah, sure”. But then inside you’re cringing. You’re so stressed because you know you’ve got the kids waiting for supper at home. You’ve got a partner who’s grumpy from their day at work in the office. You’ve got to feed the dog, walk the rabbit, or maybe the other way around even!

You’ve got so much at home, but your default is just yes, even though actually you mean no. So when you’re saying something that has a negative consequence where it feels bad on the inside, it feels like you’re out of integrity. It feels like you’re doing something that you don’t want to do, but you just can’t stop yourself.

Maybe you’re stressed, but you’re just eating lots of chocolate biscuits. You know it’s not good for you, but you’re just doing that. Any kind of compulsive activity, there’s going to be a sub-personality running you.

Another way of finding them is really that if you think of saying no to your boss at that time, you probably have a feeling of anxiety. Like, Oh, I could get the sack if I say, no. He might not like me. He might judge me. He might think I’m naughty or bad or not approve of me. It’s that anxiety will also give you the key that there’s this program that’s running you, that you actually don’t have control over. It’s controlling you in that moment.

Are sub-personalities good or bad?

Neither. They’re just there. They help us.

The thing to understand about them is that we’ve all developed ways of coping. They’re basically adaptation programs that we developed probably way back in our childhood for most of us. If you grow up in a family that demands high standards, demands you to be really good at school, you’re going to develop a Perfectionist to get to be good enough and probably a Pusher to get you to work hard towards the results that your parents and family expect from you.

They help us survive. They help us get approval and love from our families. They’re absolutely normal. We will have them. Back then in childhood, it was probably really appropriate for you to adapt to that situation and learn how to get good grades at school. Otherwise you may have fewer life choices or maybe everyone’s really annoyed with you. So you adapt that way. You learn how to please your parents by pleasing them in lots of different ways. That’s the development of this sub-personality called the Pleaser.

But when you’re now older and grown up and you don’t need the approval of your parents, or you don’t need to avoid being told off by them, the problem is we still act in the same ways. As grown ups, it’s just not so helpful. They were really helpful back then. But nowadays, actually what they do is they’re over vigilant, over careful and they’ve set their boundaries for us generally way too tight. They don’t let us do things that we’d actually really like to do, like say no sometimes.

Wow. There’s so many interesting things in what you just said there. I’m hearing a lot about boundaries. At what point do you allow that sub-personality to protect you?

You talked earlier about the People Pleaser and sometimes that can be protecting you. What’s interesting for me about that is when we talk about how the fact that we have been brought up with these different sub-personalities and the example you gave there about school. I mean, I could almost guarantee that everyone reading this is thinking at school you were taught to work harder, about getting good grades and maybe being competitive.

But in the same way as our relationship with money is formed in childhood, I guess what you’re saying then is that these sub-personalities been formed also in childhood.

As the grownup now, should I listen to this Inner Critic or this Perfectionism or this People Pleaser or this Pusher? And when can that get to the point where it can become maybe self-sabotaging or stop us from doing something?

Exactly. Really great question. If you feel that you’re not happy or fully expressed in life, there’s another good key. If you feel held back or restricted or like you’re not able to say or do what your heart desires, that’s another really big clue that there’s something going on that’s in your way.

Around money, there could be a bunch of different sub-personalities that are impacting your relationship with money and your efficacy around money, around handling money. But a Pleaser could certainly get in the way, right. It could be, you need to please a partner, please family members, make decisions around money that maybe aren’t right for you, but you’re just going to say yes when you don’t actually mean it.

The Pusher, it could be that you’re driving yourself to make more and more and more money. Why? Not because you necessarily need to, but because you feel bad about yourself if you don’t have a certain number in your bank account. So that’s really where our identity gets caught up around money, which it doesn’t need to.

Who we are isn’t based on a number in a bank account. For some people we only feel good about ourselves if we feel like we’re successful or doing really well financially. That’s another place that relationship with money can get messed up a little bit.

When you said about your identity can get caught up in the amount that’s in your bank account. We all have this financial comfort zone don’t we, which has often been driven by our relationship with money, which has been formed for many, many years. Sometimes we’re not even consciously aware of what that is.

I find this really fascinating when we think about how we feel about giving and receiving of money. It’s a really interesting concept, isn’t it to think about, well, how much do I need to have in my bank account to feel financially secure? How much do I need to have in my bank account to feel like I’m on the path to creating financial freedom.

Everyone uses this badge term of financial freedom, but what does that actually mean to you?

I guess what you’re saying there, Annie is that if People Pleaser is coming up, maybe your view of financial freedom might be because you’re trying to please others. So your view of that might be based on other people’s judgements rather than your own.

Absolutely. So you might need X amount of money to live on to actually pay the bills and have a nice time and go on holiday. So instead of going for that amount, you may be trying to actually make double the amount because you’re trying to keep up with the Joneses next door, or there’s some pressure on you inside yourself to feel like that’s not enough. I’ve got to make more, I’ve got to be more successful. In other words, have a better car or live in a bigger house, or get this financial freedom label.

“Who we are isn’t based on a number in a bank account.”

Annie Stoker

As you said before, that would make you feel fabulous. In my perspective, money just needs to be about money, needs to be about numbers and how much you need and what kind of lifestyle you want and just make the money to support that lifestyle.

We talk about it in One of Many, we use a silly analogy, but we should be as emotional about money as you are about your mouse. You’re not really emotional about your mouse. You don’t really care about it too much. If you have money. Great. If you don’t have money. It’s okay. You find a way to get more. It doesn’t have to be a big emotional topic. It’s just like this. So all the stuff we have about money really can be let go of. So that it’s just a currency. It’s a way of exchange and you get on and do what you need to do about it but without all these voices telling you you’re bad or you’re not good enough because you don’t have it.

How does the Perfectionism or the Perfectionist show up and how do we acknowledge, first of all, that the Perfectionist is even there?

Well, you’ll probably know you’ve got a Perfectionist based on what other people tell you. You might have other people going, relax a little bit. You’re so uptight about things or you’re such a Perfectionist. So you might get that feedback from people. Or you might be incredibly anxious if your towels are not facing round edged out.

OCD then?

If your socks are not all paired in drawers in colour code, or if your spice rack is not enough in alphabetical order, or if you go in a room and there’s a bit of fluff on the carpet and you feel compelled to go and pick it up.

I had one lady who did a course of mine once. We were talking about the Perfectionist and she said, “Oh yeah, well that’s me. I have Sellotape in my car. Before I get out of the car, I get a roll of it round my hand sticky side out and I wipe myself down. In fact, I did that before I came to the course.” That’s the Perfectionist.

Instantly, when people give examples of things like that, you get this is internal judgment don’t you? Almost like red flag. I’m like, whoa, that’s terrible. That’s a terrible thing to do.

It’s so interesting just to, even if you’re listening to this thinking about like, did that just trigger something in you? Did you feel something about wiping down your sleeves?

Of course it can also show up in the way that you act at work, the way that you run your business, the way that you do tasks or projects. To give you an example from my own life. I did piano when I was at school and I was doing my grade seven when I was 13, which was pretty good.

“We should be as emotional about money as you are about your mouse”

Annie Stoker

I was practicing four hours a day in between the school lessons and stuff. I practiced so hard. My sister did grade eight, piano and clarinet. Of course, she got distinction with everything. So there was me practicing away, practicing away. I did my exam. I did my very, very, very best. I practiced so hard. I got two marks below distinction. I gave up piano. I gave up piano because my Perfectionist, my Inner Critic was like, your sister could get distinction in two instruments. Your brother got distinction, but I gave up.

Wow. Looking back on that now then as the adult version of Annie, how do you deal with that?

It’s fine. I’ve got a piano in my sitting room. But I’m actually not as good as I was when I was 13. But if I had stayed with that decision, I wouldn’t have played piano and I love piano. I love music.

Another musical example for me, I do a lot of music. I love singing too. I did a singing exam when I was at school. The feedback from the teacher was you don’t have a developed voice yet. You shouldn’t be singing classical pieces because you’ve got a girl’s voice, not a woman’s developed voice. I was a kid. Why did my teacher put me up for the exam? Anyway, I failed it. It was the only thing I’ve ever failed at school. I was so ashamed and horrified. Again, that Inner Critic saying, it’s just not good enough. I never sang. I’m now in a band, in a singing group, which is fantastic. But for like 10 years, I wouldn’t sing. If anybody heard me singing, I just shut down immediately.

It has a massive impact on us when we have a strong Perfectionist and we’ve kind of lived from that. If you don’t know how to manage that, that can shut you down. Stop you taking action.

It becomes a limiting belief. Doesn’t it?


The belief is I’m not a good singer and then you carry that belief. I guess the consequences are we then either self sabotage or we don’t live in our values or we don’t maximize our potential, or it stops us from doing things because we have this limiting belief there that you can’t possibly do that because that’s what your teacher told you.

So when this Perfectionist then shows up, is there a process or some steps that we can do to once we’ve acknowledged that it might be there?

Maybe even just reading this, you might be sitting there thinking, “yeah, I really resonate with that. And actually, yeah, I did hear those kinds of things growing up and maybe that’s why I don’t feel comfortable doing this, or I don’t feel comfortable getting visible on Facebook or charging my worth in my business.” That’s a big one I see a lot of.

Is there a process or a step by step magic formula or something that we can learn more about to help us understand how to acknowledge the Perfectionist may be there, but then how do we stop it from causing us to go into self sabotage or from not taking action?

So first of all, these parts, as I said, have developed in us to try and keep us safe. So if you imagine, for me, I grew up with a headmaster for a father. My brother and sister were 14 and 16 years older than me. I was never going to be as clever as them because they are much older. Even if I was clever, I couldn’t beat them. I could never beat them because they were so much bigger and stronger than me. My father used to send my letters back with red pen, any letters that I sent back from boarding school, he’d send my letters back to me with red pen corrections.

I wanted to talk to you about how the perfectionist can stop us from doing things, from taking action, from feeling like we aren't worthy or good enough. This can be in relation to money or business or lots of other things in life.


Do you see how that way of being gets developed. I grew up in this very strong perfectionist family. The first thing that you’ve got to do is realize that it helped you. It’s there to try and keep you safe. So my Perfectionist got really strong to keep me getting approval from a headmaster father who was really pernickety and feel like I’m keeping up with my siblings. Does that make sense?

The first step is to recognise that it’s there. When you’re folding your towels really anxiously, or when you’re spending half an hour procrastinating about doing a Facebook live or something? Recognise the first thing to do is go, ah, hello, Perfectionist. As soon as you say hello Perfectionist, you’ve got a little tiny bit of space from it.

The second thing to do is to recognise in that moment when it’s showing up and you’re acting from that place, it’s trying to help you. It’s trying to say, if you don’t do this action, something bad is gonna happen. You’ll get rejected. You’ll get told off. You’ll feel inadequate, you’ll feel ashamed of yourself. It’s caring about you to try and stop that happening. It’s just that as grown ups, we have other resources, we have other tools. We have other ways of being able to deal with ourselves.

So step one, recognise it’s there. Step two, thank it very much for caring about you and looking after you. If you try and get rid of it, it’s going to freak out. You’re trying to get rid of it and then jumping even stronger. So reassure it that actually it’s okay and if you can get enough objectivity and understanding around it, you can go, I don’t think the world’s going to end if the towels aren’t quite straight. I think I can cope with that. I’m okay but thank you so much for letting me know.

Then it’s almost like you can imagine you’ve got a dial and you can turn it down. Another analogy is that when we are looking at life through a sub-personality, we’re looking through a lens. Imagine I’ve got green lenses on these glasses, everything I look at is going to look green and I would swear black and blue that everything’s green. But if I take them off, I go, Oh, well not only can I not see you, there is orange and purple and red and yellow.

You’ve got to learn how to take the lens off and then you can see different now. It’s being able to just see something that you can’t see because you’re looking through it. You have to get objectivity and then reassurance really, really helps.

I like that about the lens. That’s really powerful, for those people that are visual as well. That’s really powerful.

I’ll share an example of something that came up for me and my business just last week. Last year we ran a plug your money leaks challenge. It was brilliant and it was such a great time. I now have a library of these challenge videos. I said to my mentor the other week, I feel like I need to just give them, share them, do something with them, but I need to edit them because I’m commenting to people throughout the videos. I was in my pyjamas, for most of them with my cup of tea, which is what I do for most of my Facebook lives in The Money Circle. I was like, no, I need to get them edited.

She said why do you need to edit them? You don’t need to edit them. If you’re going to give them away in your money circle, which they’re already in The Money Circle. But if you want it to send them out to people for £10, £20 pounds, something like that, to help those people at the beginning of their journey, just share them with them. I was like, no, but I can’t because they need editing. She said to me, Catherine, we had this conversation seven months ago and we’re still having the same conversation. I said, okay, I’m recognising that this is the Perfectionist coming up in me. I said, I’m going to send a message to my Ops Manager. I’m going to ask her to put them into a page in the membership and we’ll just get them out there.

Part of me is like, Oh, I haven’t got my little jingle on the front and they haven’t been edited. But you know what, it’s times like that when somebody else can take that lens off for you. Almost like you can see it from somebody else’s perspective, it changes the whole meaning of that challenge.

Exactly. That’s why you need a coach. You need a facilitator, you need an ops manager. Anybody who can see that actually, you’re looking through a pair of lenses, but doesn’t have you see the truth of what’s actually going on.

The capacity to see ourselves objectively is really hard because we’re in here and we’re looking through all the filters all the time. So it takes a lot of special training and awareness to be able to just take them off and everything’s so different without the Perfectionist lens.

Yeah. That’s so interesting. Is there anything else that you’d like to share about the Perfectionist? So talk through the different steps that you can take to acknowledge them, recognise them. Is there anything else that is worth mentioning about the Perfectionist that you wanted to share?

Okay. So I’d probably share that it’s not a bad thing. It’s nice for us to have good standards. We want to be able to do as good a job as we can. If we’re serving people to do the best, to give as much as we can.

It’s not that the Perfectionist or any of the other sub-personalities are bad. It’s just that when it’s compulsive, like you were saying, it took you seven months to not put these up until you changed the mindset around them. Not the videos, but change the mindset around it. When these things are compulsive, they just stop us doing things like that. They stop us feeling okay about ourselves.

These parts are not going to go away. You’re always going to have a Perfectionist, even if you do work on it and turn it down, it’s like having a dial. Is it really, really strong? If it is really strong, it’s going to impact you majorly. If it’s down and it’s relaxed, it’s just going to be there like one of the tools in your tool belt, like one of the voices in your head that’s just going to go, really shouldn’t be wearing those shoes with that skirt is just not a good idea. And you go, Oh, good point. It’s just a little friend there to point out things that you could do a little bit better, but it doesn’t make you anxious. It doesn’t make you feel bad about yourself and it’s not making you act compulsively. So there’s nothing wrong with them. Please don’t think I’m saying that they’re wrong, but it’s just, do you have choice?

Do you have choice at five o’clock to say yes or no to your boss? Do you have choice right now to put those videos up on the membership site without editing them or not? That’s an easy way to say it really.

Does this link into boundaries?

It absolutely does. With a Perfectionist will have you maybe working too hard in your business and, as you’ve just described, you wanting the videos to be perfect and you’re spending hours and hours on them before you put them out. Actually you just didn’t need to. You might flout boundaries with yourself, with your family. You might put too much money into editing the silly videos.

If you paid your Ops Manager 20 hours to edit the videos, just edit your pyjamas out or something, or put your jingles on the front when you didn’t need to, it’s cost you a bunch of money. But it could cost you financial boundaries. It could cost your family time boundaries. It could be your own personal boundaries. I’m not looking after my needs because here I am editing videos at midnight, a whole bunch of things. So that’s how the Perfectionist could affect boundaries.

The Pleaser affects boundaries left, right, and centre because the Pleaser makes us say yes, when we mean no or makes us say no, when we mean yes. It takes away our capacity to be open and clear and confront and bring a bit of warrioress energy. It just doesn’t do boundaries.

Would it be useful therefore, to give the sub-personalities, whether it’s the Pleaser or the Perfectionist, a name. Is that useful?

You can call it those names that really helps so that you can identify its function, what it’s doing for you. There’s one that we talk about with the Inner Critic. There’s a nice way of trying to get some space on the Inner Critic. You can get the Inner Critic a name like Bertie or some weird name. Some people call it the pixie, Trixie the pixie, somebody calls it. Then a nice way with the Inner Critic is you can draw a picture of it and make it a cartoon character.

Make it fun and a character.

That’s particularly for the Inner Critic because people have so much hassle with the Inner Critic just hammering them and making them feel really bad about themselves. I don’t think with the other ones it’s so useful, but with that one in particular, people’s Inner Critics basically can run their lives, can cause depression, cause them to feel miserable. So that’s a really important one to understand.

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If you’ve just come up with a name for your Inner Critic, drop it in the comments or email us in. We’d love to hear what name you’ve come up with.

So we can be quite playful can’t we with this? It doesn’t have to be serious?

It doesn’t have to be serious and the more objectivity you can bring to these parts of us that are causing this hassle, the more you can start to interact with them in a playful way, because it’s not so serious. These voices are there, but they’re not actually speaking the whole truth. So to be able to hear and see what they’re saying and understand why is that is the most important thing, understand why they’re doing what they’re doing really helps us get some space, feel compassionate for why they’re saying those things to us and just bring them a bit of care and support and reassurance that actually we’re grown up now. We’re going to be fine. We can cope with these things.

Sometimes it can go really deep and it can relate to traumas that we’ve had in the past. I think the concept of financial therapy is really interesting because I know a lot of deep rooted OCD and Perfectionism and People Pleaser, can be very deep rooted in trauma.

Obviously One of Many do a lot of work and support with women where this is very deep rooted. I’ll share with you, who haven’t heard me talk about this before, but the BeLove retreat that you guys run for One of Many really helps to literally scream things out in pillows and to deal with that hidden grief and trauma and pain and things that can harbour in the body and obviously can cause significant impact if we don’t get rid of those emotions.

Emotions aren’t bad, emotions aren’t negative. They’re just there to either serve to protect us or to stop us from doing something. I just wanted to mention that because I think it is important to recognise that sometimes these beliefs and sub-personalities can come from a place of trauma and it is important to recognise if that is present to then go and get some additional support.

If they’re really, really strong and they are really impacting you, then you need to get some professional help with that. Absolutely. If they’re kind of mid range to low, then you can certainly use techniques and learn ways to deal with them. If you’ve had trauma in the past, it’s just so, so important to get that dealt with and find some new ways to move forward and to let go in a safe way.

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for sharing with us today, Annie, around this subject, it’s been really interesting. If anybody wants to connect with you or the One of Many community, what would be the best way for them to do that?

So go to One Of Many and you can find all the offerings there. I have my own business, which is Life Training Institute so you can connect with me there as well, and do courses and in this particular modality, actually. I trained people how to work with sub-personalities and how to use that in a coaching context.

I’m on the waiting list for next year, actually. I studied NLP which I know you do some work in NLP and it is fascinating looking at modalities.

You do lots of trainings don’t you, Annie, within your organisation. What kind of trainings do you offer for people?

I do train coaches in these different modalities. I also work with individuals, but it’s really based around these sub-personalities and how we can get space from them.

I specialise in mindfulness as well, helping people not just get space from the individual sub-personalities, but our mind as a whole. That’s where that piece comes in of learning to get space and find a bit of peace, no matter what’s going on. The way that I work is very much about, okay, so we can fix some of life, but we can’t fix all of it. So how are we going to enjoy ourselves anyway, no matter what’s going on, no matter how much is in our bank account.

So that’s that freedom piece for me. It’s just let’s find freedom and happiness right now, rather than waiting until we’ve got something sorted in our life.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for your time today, Annie. It’s been a pleasure to have you on the podcast today and I will catch you at the next retreat.

Yes. Beautiful. Thanks so much, Catherine.


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